Criminal Bar VPs on breaking new ground for criminal lawyers

A couple of months ago, Criminal Bar Association Vice Presidents Annabel Cresswell and Sumudu Thode launched their criminal justice-focused podcast That’s Just Criminal. And as they told NZ Lawyer, one made the other do it.

Cresswell and Thode have already released three episodes across platforms like Apple, Spotify and Amazon – and they’re not done yet. In the first part of this interview, they share how the podcast idea was conceived, their amazing rapport as longtime friends, and their planning process.

What led the two of you to start the That’s Just Criminal podcast in the first place, and why did you feel that it was important to do it?

Cresswell: Sumudu made me! [laughs].

Thode: Most criminal lawyers are barristers, and they work on their own. You might have other people that you can talk about cases with, but when it comes to your actual cases, you are on your own. So this is a way to bring criminal lawyers together and talk about issues so they know that they're not the only ones dealing with these issues. It’s also a way to provide different perspectives or different ideas, but not in a formal CPD, seminar, or webinar-type environment – in a more light hearted and relaxed way but at the same time, it is still informative.

There's not anything like that out there for criminal defence lawyers or criminal lawyers. It also gives the public a bit of a look into what we do as well. So whether it's clients or their families, they get to listen to what goes on in our heads and our thinking.

Also, I made Annabel do it!

Annabel, how were you finally convinced to do the podcast?

Cresswell: Well, what she said was, “I'm doing this with you, no one else. We're doing it”. So I felt there was no way out. But also, Sumudu does a lot – she works tirelessly having her own practice and raising children. And I felt like, if she can do it, I can't really say I can't do it. So it was a show of respect for the hard work Sumudu does that I agreed to it.

Thode: Annabel and I have known each other like 15 odd years. We've done courses and a couple of cases together, and I think we work really well together. We complement each other's skills. And so when I was thinking about [the podcast], I wanted to do this with somebody who I knew would put in the effort. I know that we work well together, and we've got a good rapport.

Annabel has actually done some amazing cases, and she works hard. We are very different, but also very similar. So it's interesting to hear what each other has to say and think about issues as well.

What went into the planning process for the first few episodes?

Thode: It actually came together super-duper quick. We have a PR person we work with through the CBA; we mentioned it to her, and then she got us in touch with a producer. We had a meeting with the producer, during which the four of us got along really well. It was a really productive meeting, and it all came about very quickly.

At the moment, we've got funding for six episodes, which is what we're hoping to release before Christmas, and then we'll look at next year. But it just comes from us talking to each other going, “Oh, that's a topic” or “yeah, I like that too”.

Cresswell: And then we've literally sat down, turned a mic on and just started talking, really. That’s how we've done it – there's definitely no script, and even no outline either. But we'll have a quick chat beforehand. They're quite short episodes so we talk for about an hour, and then the producer cuts it into something that's palatable.

Next week, Cresswell and Thode talk about recording the podcast at home (with children around) and how COVID prepared them for this venture.