Ministry of Social Development lawyer: Law is 'never a matter of winning or losing'

Seil Kimberley’s parents wanted her to go into dentistry, but a steady diet of crime thriller novels as a child instilled in her a love of doing justice in the world instead. Today, as a lawyer focused on criminal litigation at the Ministry of Social Development, Kimberley is indeed fulfilling her goal to bring justice – even when it means taking a loss on trial.

As a member of NZ Asian Women Lawyers, Kimberley is a strong advocate for providing Asian women with solid guidance as they navigate the legal profession, and for fostering connections among Asian female lawyers to cultivate a “balanced presence within the legal community”.

In this interview, Kimberley discusses more therapeutic approaches to administering the law, celebrating rather than criticising, and expanding her knowledge base beyond prosecution.

What made you choose a career in law, and what’s your favourite part of the job?

I was always interested in criminal law. All the crime thriller novels I grew up with must have played a part! My parents initially wanted me to be a dentist, but I was no good at science or maths. I was more of a bookish girl who fantasised about doing justice in this world. My parents were supportive, as long as it led to me being someone who is happily dedicated to helping people. Really, I think there were many signs early on. My dad’s side of the family has some background in law, and my mum always used to joke with me that because I talk back a lot, I would probably make a good lawyer.

What keeps me in this job is the fact that I can indeed help people. My favourite part of criminal litigation, regardless of whether it is defence or prosecution, is that it is always about the people, more so than it is about the law.

What is going on at NZ Asian Lawyers? Can you tell us more about your role and the work that you do with the organisation?

I am part of NZ Asian Women Lawyers, which is a subcommittee to NZ Asian Lawyers. NZ Asian Women Lawyers is an organisation that may not have a long history, but does have great prospects for Asian women lawyers practising in NZ. Our aim is to create a supportive networking space where Asian women lawyers can promote career advancement and have a balanced presence within the legal community.

We are working on facilitating a number of events that will provide an opportunity for Asian women lawyers to hear speakers covering topics we think will be of interest to them. We had a panel discussion on 9 February, where myself and two other Asian women lawyers shared stories and talked about the very different career paths that we each have taken. We hope this one will be the first of a regular series of events that helps to connect Asian women lawyers in NZ.

Are there any new programs and initiatives that you’re particularly interested in?

I am interested in mentoring programmes. I think it is important that law students, especially Asian women, have solid guidance when they first step into this profession. I received a lot of good advice from mentors back when I was a law student, so I am very much keen to come full circle and help students and young lawyers who are enthusiastic about learning more.

What has been your proudest accomplishment in the last year or so? Or what’s the biggest lesson you learned in the past year and what advice can you give fellow lawyers about it?

Last year, I lost a trial. A lot of people had put a lot of work into it and the trial lasted for weeks. I was undeniably devastated at the outcome, thinking back on all the work and the sleepless nights. But when I turned around to thank my learned friends from the defence side after it was all over, I saw them hugging the defendants who were breaking down crying. Of course it must have been tears of joy since they were acquitted. It was then that I realised this truly is a matter of life for them, while it may just be a matter of achievement for me. I didn’t feel sour anymore and was happy they found their justice in our legal system, and glad I was part of the experience.

What I learned was that this is never a matter of winning or losing. It is about finding justice and doing what is right. I hope my fellow lawyers or those who are wanting to start their career in this profession do not take experiences like this as a loss or personal failure. As someone who constantly criticises herself rather than celebrating herself, I hope I can take my own advice as well!

What should the legal profession focus more on?

I believe we can always focus more on wellbeing. It is surprising how easy it sounds and how difficult it is to implement. I think lawyers are trained to take a beating and accept it as normal, which it should not be. Long hours of work and stress are a lawyer’s best friends, but it is always good to remember we also have life outside of work. Many organisations in the legal industry are now trying to practice wellbeing in a range of ways and I think this should continue.

What are the challenges you expect in your practice, and in the business of law in general, going forward? What challenges are particularly pressing in the country’s legal industry?

The biggest challenge I face is the prominence of adversarial nature in our court system. Traditionally our courts are adversarial, but I am more of a believer in therapeutic ways of administering the law and collaboration between lawyers. To be quite frank, I am not particularly fond of making myself vocal by “arguments”. In the current era, that is part and parcel of the job as a lawyer, but I hope other ways of achieving justice are appreciated as well. Some courts like the family violence court, drug court and youth court are endeavouring to incorporate principles of therapeutic jurisprudence, which I believe is one way of dealing with such challenges.

What are you looking forward to the most in the coming year?

I am looking forward to taking on new opportunities in a different line of work than prosecution. Of course, my favourite is still criminal law, but the legal team in MSD provides a wide range of work and I hope I can broaden my knowledge base by experiencing its variety.

If you had to defend a fictional antagonist/villain in court, who would you pick, and why?

Joker. He is an interestingly complex character who has an explanation for what he did. An explanation is not an excuse of course. He may not be acquitted of his crimes, but his “explanation” at least assists us to understand the underlying causes of offending which would in turn contribute to developing an appropriate socio-economic response to crimes. He’d give lots of ammunition for the defence lawyer to work with at sentencing!